Curse

melissa b · May 23, 2011, 09:05 PM // 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninja Dude

The stationary ranger. If it spawns with the wave that spawns in the middle, it won't be a problem. Feeding the dragon just sounds awkward and running back every round would be annoying rather than just having one extra, weak enemy.

Ok, so you just want one round with 1 stationary ranger to be affected. In that case it would be kinda a weak nerf. They would be afking for 10 minutes instead of 20.

Kunder · May 23, 2011, 09:49 PM // 21:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by melissa b

I like how you ignored how flawed your 20 dcore statement was but anyway the farming for several years was fine because afk farming didn't exist until after the hero update.

The 20 Dcore thing is still true. The guild wars economy as a whole would be unaffected, only a very few minor items would dive in price and almost no one would care except the AFKers (who would now get nothing because Dcores were worthless).

Afk farming existed before, you could easily do it NM with only 3 heroes. I'm sure with 7 heroes HM isn't a problem and you can get more items, but that doesn't make much difference to the basic principle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by melissa b

Botters are dealt with differently because its against eula. This case is about afking which as far as I know is legal so has to be dealt with a different method. Sure Anet does have a great system to deal with bots but there is a system and if you think of better ideas to deal with them then why not make a thread about that. I speciafically want to target this afk farm but ultimately all afk farms should be dealt with and perhaps a general afk farming thread should be started.

If AFKers aren't hardly even effecting the economy 1/1,000,000th as much as botters, spending more than 1/1000000th as much time eliminating the problem is more than you should.

Haggis of Doom · May 23, 2011, 11:55 PM // 23:55

This particular AFK farm is ridiculously bad. You have to be at the keyboard more often than not, and lose all the loot if you miss the time window to collect it. It's already surprising that people bothered to make a thread about how to do it (although I admit the mini-challenge of making it work well could have been a valid incentive). It's really sad that anyone would consider it an "exploit" that needs fixing.

If AFKers want to waste their time on one of the worst AFK farms possible, let them.

Ninja Dude · May 24, 2011, 01:06 AM // 01:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by melissa b

Ok, so you just want one round with 1 stationary ranger to be affected. In that case it would be kinda a weak nerf. They would be afking for 10 minutes instead of 20.

I think I forgot to say that the ranger would be stationary, sorry. If it spawns out of aggro range they can't kill it. It would cripple the team for the rest of the challenge.

melissa b · May 24, 2011, 01:21 AM // 01:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

The 20 Dcore thing is still true. The guild wars economy as a whole would be unaffected, only a very few minor items would dive in price and almost no one would care except the AFKers (who would now get nothing because Dcores were worthless).

Afk farming existed before, you could easily do it NM with only 3 heroes. I'm sure with 7 heroes HM isn't a problem and you can get more items, but that doesn't make much difference to the basic principle.

If AFKers aren't hardly even effecting the economy 1/1,000,000th as much as botters, spending more than 1/1000000th as much time eliminating the problem is more than you should.

Your numbers are well imaginary so let me just say this....

- the 20 dcore drop would devastate the economy
- you could not easily afk farm glint before the update of heroes
-7 hero afk hm has yet been shown to work at least pubicly
-come back with some better information than fake statistics

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haggis of Doom

This particular AFK farm is ridiculously bad. You have to be at the keyboard more often than not, and lose all the loot if you miss the time window to collect it. It's already surprising that people bothered to make a thread about how to do it (although I admit the mini-challenge of making it work well could have been a valid incentive). It's really sad that anyone would consider it an "exploit" that needs fixing.

If AFKers want to waste their time on one of the worst AFK farms possible, let them.

-This farm is really good for casual players that don't have time to be atk that much to farm but dont want to violate the eula with a bot
-lol at atk more than not 95% of the farm is afk (ratio of 1 minute atk to 19 minutes afk) This means in 1 hour of actual at the keyboard time you can earn 600k.
-its sad to let afk farming persist. thats the i want more for free, and everything to be so easy fail attitude

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninja Dude

I think I forgot to say that the ranger would be stationary, sorry. If it spawns out of aggro range they can't kill it. It would cripple the team for the rest of the challenge.

Like I said it would be a weak nerf, people will post heroes, afk 10 minutes, rush to stationary ranger and kill, post heroes, afk 10 minutes, collect free gold.

Although it would definitely decrease the amount of afkers so it would be better than nothing.

Kanyatta · May 24, 2011, 01:41 AM // 01:41

As everyone has said before, afk farming has been around for a while and hasn't affected the "economy" nearly as much as the botters and gold sellers.

I understand that you mean well with your idea, and it would fix this problem, but all in all, I'd rather see them ban more bot accounts. I feel like implementing your suggestion would be like sticking your thumb in the crack of a bursting dam. Not very effective.

Also, even though I don't know that much about GW item selling/buying and PvE, I still feel like most of your previous claims are horribly exaggerated, and I'm not a fan of how you personally attacked some people in this thread with sarcasm and false accusations, and acted all pretentious about how flawless your idea was, so that makes me want to support your idea even less, tbh.

melissa b · May 24, 2011, 01:47 AM // 01:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanyatta

I don't know that much about .....PvE

I stopped reading after that.

Kunder · May 24, 2011, 02:31 AM // 02:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by melissa b

Your numbers are well imaginary so let me just say this....

- the 20 dcore drop would devistate the economy

Congrats, you don't understand Econ 101. You also can't spell fairly simple English words, but I'll let that slide.

Quote:

Originally Posted by melissa b

- you could not easily afk farm glint before the update of heroes

Maybe for specifically loose interpretations of "easily", but you most certainly could.

Quote:

Originally Posted by melissa b

- 7 hero afk hm has yet been shown to work at least pubicly

I highly doubt there aren't people already doing it. HM isn't that much worse than NM. They know posting it would drive prices even lower and kill off their own profit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by melissa b

-come back with some better information than fake statistics

Come back with a firm reason to make a change rather than nebulous scare tactics pretending that an insignificant portion of the community is responsible for supposedly huge economic damage.

Mig Coconut · May 24, 2011, 03:28 AM // 03:28

This is really a non-issue.

The design of the mission and the nature of 7h will ensure some form of afk/semi-afk farm.

However, the "rewards" are laughable compared to other things. You get ~9k every 20 mins through 4-6 cores, occasional gold drop, and the cloth at the end (which you must spend extra time selling in Kamadan). You MUST be at your keyboard to pick all these up- if you simple go afk at the beginning, when the mission ends and the timer expires you'll get nothing.

Pretty much any other farm has a better rate of return.

You're whole "dcores affect the economy" is inaccurate. There are faster ways to farm cores (I think e/me and r/a can solo farm the first wave, but I don't remember the details). If people want the sweet/party/drunk items during holidays, doing vaettir/raptor farming is faster. Through glint afk, assuming 4-6 cores per run, they have to do 50 runs x20 minutes (since you can only be semi-afk) or for 1000 minutes (little less than 17 hours) to get a stack of items via npc trade. You can get a stack in about 3 hours straight farming instead, not to mention you'll get all the extra golds and stuff that drops.

If there was no timer that booted you out at the end, I might've agreed with the OP. As it is now, though, no.

melissa b · May 24, 2011, 03:35 AM // 03:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mig Coconut

This is really a non-issue.

The design of the mission and the nature of 7h will ensure some form of afk/semi-afk farm.

However, the "rewards" are laughable compared to other things. You get ~9k every 20 mins through 4-6 cores, occasional gold drop, and the cloth at the end (which you must spend extra time selling in Kamadan). You MUST be at your keyboard to pick all these up- if you simple go afk at the beginning, when the mission ends and the timer expires you'll get nothing.

Pretty much any other farm has a better rate of return.

You're whole "dcores affect the economy" is inaccurate. There are faster ways to farm cores (I think e/me and r/a can solo farm the first wave, but I don't remember the details). If people want the sweet/party/drunk items during holidays, doing vaettir/raptor farming is faster. Through glint afk, assuming 4-6 cores per run, they have to do 50 runs x20 minutes (since you can only be semi-afk) or for 1000 minutes (little less than 17 hours) to get a stack of items via npc trade. You can get a stack in about 3 hours straight farming instead, not to mention you'll get all the extra golds and stuff that drops.

If there was no timer that booted you out at the end, I might've agreed with the OP. As it is now, though, no.

Well you missed kunders post, because I was responding to him stating "if destroyers dropped 20 d-cores" My reponse was based on if they dropped 20 not the way they drop currently.

What other afk farm has a better rate of return? because certainly I'm not saying this is a better farm than available atk options.

Bright Star Shine · May 24, 2011, 09:44 AM // 09:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Del

The fact that you seriously think anyone who disagrees with you MUST be an afk farmer pants-on-head retarded.

w00t! Finally! I finally found someone who also uses "pants-on-head-retarded"! My guildies always laugh with me when I use it! Thank you sir, now I can finally make a statement^^

Anyway back on topic. Every time I see a thread made by melissa I prepare to either laugh pretty hard or just facepalm.

Your assumptions are ridiculous and your "omg, they disagree thus they must exploit" is just to laugh at..

Who cares about some lame afk farm that isn't even worth doing? Btw, is this thing done NM or HM? Ok, the excuse "Anet has better things to do" is not a good argument, but if people feel that they should use their heroes to play the game for them (note, this is perfectly legal and not against the EULA, it's Anet's own doing when they implemented 7 heroes) I think they should be able. That means that they have come so far that they take a game they should be playing to have fun a little bit too seriously..

And to be fairly honest, even if your suggestion would have been anything more sane than "feed the baby" I would still have disagreed with you, just because of your reactions..

melissa b · May 24, 2011, 05:57 PM // 17:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine

w00t! Finally! I finally found someone who also uses "pants-on-head-retarded"! My guildies always laugh with me when I use it! Thank you sir, now I can finally make a statement^^

Anyway back on topic. Every time I see a thread made by melissa I prepare to either laugh pretty hard or just facepalm.

Your assumptions are ridiculous and your "omg, they disagree thus they must exploit" is just to laugh at..

I never said that and that is completely false...I feel it can be the case but NOT always...You would know this if you read post 23 where I clearly stated 6 reasons people might not want this implemented

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine

Who cares about some lame afk farm that isn't even worth doing?

This coming from a DOA farmer pov. For a casual player with no time it is useful.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine

Btw, is this thing done NM or HM?

NM, although kunder claims that people must be doing it in hm but hes clearly just guessing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine

Ok, the excuse "Anet has better things to do" is not a good argument

Hey, I agree, lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine

, but if people feel that they should use their heroes to play the game for them (note, this is perfectly legal and not against the EULA, it's Anet's own doing when they implemented 7 heroes) I think they should be able. That means that they have come so far that they take a game they should be playing to have fun a little bit too seriously..

Hmmm, I agree it is most likely legal but I feel its wrong, this is an opinion thing for most people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine

And to be fairly honest, even if your suggestion would have been anything more sane than "feed the baby" I would still have disagreed with you, just because of your reactions..

I do have another idea to throw out thats less creative but much easier to implement.

Add 12 destroyer of lives spawns, 2 per wave. They would be on each of the two ramps far enough away that flagged heroes set to offensive mode wouldn't get to them.

vitorvdp_68 · May 24, 2011, 06:07 PM // 18:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by melissa b

I never said that and that is completely false...I feel it can be the case but NOT always...You would know this if you read post 23 where I clearly stated 6 reasons people might not want this implemented

That was your immediate reaction to the FIRST negative feedback you got.
Do you happen to be wearing a foil hat?

This coming from a DOA farmer pov. For a casual player with no time it is useful.

And that is how the cookie crumbles. If you are more dedicated and have more time, you earn more. If you don't have time or aren't bothered, you resort to some crappy farm.

Hmmm, I agree it is most likely legal but I feel its wrong, this is an opinion thing for most people.

It's not most likely legal. It is legal. Just because you feel it's wrong, doesn't mean it is wrong.

Just what I think.

Del · May 24, 2011, 06:11 PM // 18:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by melissa b

This coming from a DOA farmer pov. For a casual player with no time it is useful.

So basically, you just want to screw over casual players with no time from making extremely insignificant amounts of cash why...?

Quote:

Originally Posted by melissa b

Hmmm, I agree it is most likely legal but I feel its wrong, this is an opinion thing for most people.

So you're so bothered by afk farming something that is rapidly plummeting in price, and making tiny amounts of money for the tiny amounts of people bothering with it why...?

Quote:

Originally Posted by melissa b

I do have another idea to throw out thats less creative but much easier to implement.

Add 12 destroyer of lives spawns, 2 per wave. They would be on each of the two ramps far enough away that flagged heroes set to offensive mode wouldn't get to them.

Once again, you're talking as if you have any idea how easy any of this is to program. Seriously, quit talking out of your ass.

melissa b · May 24, 2011, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by vitorvdp_68

Just what I think.

Well it is not 100% that its legal because theres some gray area about eploits in the eula. From wiki "An exploit can be a weakness in a difficult mission or quest that allows players to finish it easily and gain the rewards without much effort." Anet would probably consider it legal but also decide they don't want afk farms in the game and nerf it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Del

So basically, you just want to screw over casual players with no time from making extremely insignificant amounts of cash why...?

So you're so bothered by afk farming something that is rapidly plummeting in price, and making tiny amounts of money for the tiny amounts of people bothering with it why...?

Once again, you're talking as if you have any idea how easy any of this is to program. Seriously, quit talking out of your ass.

It simply comes down to making the game more honest. If you afk gold it seems to me similar to botting and is a form of something for nothing.
As far as my 2nd idea... well it was a modification of Ninjas idea. Yes, it would be easier to code. The destroyer of lives already exists the other idea creates some new features.

Rushin Roulette · May 25, 2011, 07:52 AM // 07:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by melissa b

Well it is not 100% that its legal because theres some gray area about eploits in the eula. From wiki "An exploit can be a weakness in a difficult mission or quest that allows players to finish it easily and gain the rewards without much effort." Anet would probably consider it legal but also decide they don't want afk farms in the game and nerf it.

So, if we take this argument, then it is logical for you that taking the back route in Gayla Hatchery is a banable offence because it makes the mission easier by exploiting a bug in the mission which causes the Turtle groups to not move out and thus leaving the player free to run around the whole map killing ~95% of the foes without worrying about the turtles (Dont you just love run on setences

) ?

The EULA mentions 3rd party programms, but I can not find anywhere which mentions that Heroes are a 3rd party. To me they all look to be somehow loosely connected to the game by Anet (At least the greedy gannets nick enough of our loot and still expect to be runed and decked out with weapons by us).

It is amazing how many people here are openly disagreeing with you, but you still think that a Guildwars version of "my little (flamebreathing) pony" is a good idea.

melissa b · May 25, 2011, 08:19 AM // 08:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rushin Roulette

So, if we take this argument, then it is logical for you that taking the back route in Gayla Hatchery is a banable offence because it makes the mission easier by exploiting a bug in the mission which causes the Turtle groups to not move out and thus leaving the player free to run around the whole map killing ~95% of the foes without worrying about the turtles (Dont you just love run on setences

) ?

The EULA mentions 3rd party programms, but I can not find anywhere which mentions that Heroes are a 3rd party. To me they all look to be somehow loosely connected to the game by Anet (At least the greedy gannets nick enough of our loot and still expect to be runed and decked out with weapons by us).

It is amazing how many people here are openly disagreeing with you, but you still think that a Guildwars version of "my little (flamebreathing) pony" is a good idea.

First off I didn't say it was bannable, I simply didn't know for 100% certainty that it is legal. I said in fact anet would probably not consider it bannable but heres my information source....

The gray area I was talking about taken from guildwars.com
"You will not exploit any bug in Guild Wars"...."bugs that grant the user unnatural or unintended benefits"

In your example the bug would be the spawnings sequence and the unintended benefit would be an easier mission

Technically a violation but I would say with 99% certainty that anet considers it not a bannable offense but I can't guarantee
_____

Hey, I got to stand up for what I thinks right. I haven't been swayed that my change would cause significant harm to atk players and I certainly haven't been swayed that afk farming is a legitimate playstyle.

Kanyatta · May 25, 2011, 06:55 PM // 18:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by melissa b

I certainly haven't been swayed that afk farming is a legitimate playstyle.

No one in this thread has said yet that afk farming is a legitimate playstyle. No one has said "But those guys who came up with the 7 hero afk farm are such gods among men in this game that they deserve oober lootz!!!"

You don't have to think afk farming is legitimate to think that the suggested change is basically pointless. As other people have said, it would take at least a week of afk farming to get destroyer gloves, and the items you get don't net far over 20k/hour.

If you want good lewt, do DoA farm or trap UW or whatever good farm is meta right now, because it sounds like this afk glint farm doesn't net much more profit than doing MTSC or MQSC with lockpicks.

Ninja Dude · May 25, 2011, 07:46 PM // 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by melissa b

Like I said it would be a weak nerf, people will post heroes, afk 10 minutes, rush to stationary ranger and kill, post heroes, afk 10 minutes, collect free gold.

Keep in mind the disenchantment well necromancer. And having to check it every 10 minutes defeats the purpose of afking.

melissa b · May 25, 2011, 08:46 PM // 20:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanyatta

No one in this thread has said yet that afk farming is a legitimate playstyle. No one has said "But those guys who came up with the 7 hero afk farm are such gods among men in this game that they deserve oober lootz!!!"

You don't have to think afk farming is legitimate to think that the suggested change is basically pointless. As other people have said, it would take at least a week of afk farming to get destroyer gloves, and the items you get don't net far over 20k/hour.

If you want good lewt, do DoA farm or trap UW or whatever good farm is meta right now, because it sounds like this afk glint farm doesn't net much more profit than doing MTSC or MQSC with lockpicks.

I believe it was Chocobo1 who said something about if people want their heroes to play for them than let them, however I can't quote that because I believe a moderator deleted the post.
_____

You can't really compare an atk farm to an afk farm for profit because one you are actively participating in and the other your heroes are doing all the work. Afk farming is more like botting where all killing is done with no input from the player.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninja Dude

Keep in mind the disenchantment well necromancer. And having to check it every 10 minutes defeats the purpose of afking.

/signed (as option b to fix the afk farm)

quick recap

so now we have the following possible fixes...

a. feed the dragon with bonus reputation points
b. wells and stationary ranger spamming spirits
c. destroyer of live spawns parked up ramps each wave